1. • CommentAuthorlarsks
   • CommentTimeJun 30th 2007

    
   Google has recently introduced a "dynamic routing" feature to Google Maps. If you prefer a different routing from the one Google picks, you can now grab the route lines and drag them around and Google will dynamically re-route to meet your requirements.
   
   It's very cool, and it makes it very, very easy to use Google Maps for creating bike routes. You can let the automatic routing fill out most of the route, then adjust things until you're happy.
   
   You can then use the GMap2GPX bookmarklet (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/gmaptogpx) to produce a GPX version of the route.
   
   You *could* then upload this to Bikely, but the dynamic routing in Google Maps results in multiple routes in the generated GPX file, and Bikely only imports the first route. I haven't yet figured out if gpsbabel can merge all the routes into one. A simple XSL transformation would probably handle it.
2. • CommentAuthordlcole
   • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2007

    
   Bikely would be *much* more useable if it could incorporate this new feature of Google Maps!
3. • CommentAuthorjohnstevenson
   • CommentTimeJul 4th 2007

    
   Bear in mind that some features of Google Maps aren't necessarily available to sites like Bikely that are built on the Google Maps API. New features tend to be introduced through Google Maps first, then made available to sites like ours.
   
   That said, there have been some new Google Maps API features that we're very excited about, and once we have Bikeradar + Bikely working the way we want it (that is, just like it is now but in different colours ;) ) we'll be getting them implemented ASAP.
4. • CommentAuthorBlueMM
   • CommentTimeJul 4th 2007 edited

    
   larsks: The simple workaround to fix the GPX produced by GMap2GPX is to open it in a text editor & remove all of the:
   </trkseg>
   <trkseg>
   pairs of lines. This then turns it into 1 big Track segment, allowing it to be imported into Bikely. Ideally Bikely can fix it's import routines to just join all the Track segments into 1 (since Bikely doesn't seem to have a concept of segments).
   
   dlcole:
   AFAIK, Google's Terms of Service forbid websites extracting the track data of driving directions. The GMap2GPX Bookmarklet seems to get around this, because it just processes the page delivered in the browser. That also makes it prone to breaking, because it has to be updated everytime Google changes GMap pages.
   
   BTW. I've been using the GMap2GPX Bookmarklet for some months now. I've been in contact with Josh the author to improve it so it's perfect for Bikely users. The Track log (the "Full" tab) now includes turn directions. It means that you can create your route via driving directions in GMap, fine tune it (esp. the new dynamic routing), GMap2GPX it & import into Bikely. I've found I need to do very little fine tuning of the route & cuesheet comments. Saves a stack of time!!!
5. • CommentAuthorkrudnick
   • CommentTimeJul 6th 2007

    
   I actually think this is related to a problem I am having with gpx files with <trk>/<trkpt> (and, of course, <trkseg>) document elements, whereas bikely seems to really only want <rte>/<rtept> document elements. See the post under Steps to importing GPX files. It seems if bikely could handle <trk>/<trkseg>/<trkpt> in one file as one concatenated route, this new Google Map feature would be more useful as well as my Edge 305 gpx files from either MotionBased or SportsTrack would also import.
6. • CommentAuthorwyeager
   • CommentTimeJul 7th 2007

    
   The flexibility bikely offers to put points at arbitrary locations is awesome but google maps ability to select roads without having to draw them out point-by-point would be a welcome addition. I suspect that it may be a matter of waiting for Google to add that functionality to their API rather than a matter of the bikely staff adding the feature. Bummer. Just last night I was plotting out a route that I plan to ride on Sunday. I used both maps.google.com and bikely and found google's interface much easier . . . though without elevation profile I still value the bikely map.
7. • CommentAuthorez1bent
   • CommentTimeJul 8th 2007

    
   I like the way (and speed) Google maps routes and reroutes. The bigest problem I have is that many of my maps involve trails which google does not recognize. It would be nice to have it both ways.... autorouting with manual point to point.
   
   Tim
8. •  
     CommentAuthorKevin Pfeiffer
   • CommentTimeJul 8th 2007

    
   I just tried the GoogleMaps routing feature, but I don't see how to clear the screen when starting over. ?
9. • CommentAuthorjohnstevenson
   • CommentTimeJul 18th 2007

    
   The road-following functionality has been added to the API, and this is a feature I am pressing very hard to get added to Bikely/BikeRadar ASAP because it massively speeds up drawing routes.
   
   It'll need an on/off switch though, and not just for drawing rides on trails: there are places where the map graphic shows a road, but the map data can't find it.
10. • CommentAuthormetzenberg
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2007

     
    I would like to have a way to draw two or more alternate routes on Bikely. For example, I would use it to offer an easy and a hard route option.
    
    Howard
11. • CommentAuthorkyleyost
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2007

     
    MapMyRun.com has the ability to turn "Follow Roads" on and off. It is fantastic, however MapMyRun does not process large numbers of points (which results from Follow Roads as lots and lots of data points are created for you behind the scenes in order to follow the twists and turns in the road) as well as Bikely. So, Bikely, please implement this!
    
    Also, both Bikely and MapMyRun seem to be using an old google map database. Check out the roads near the lake and park boundaries for Deep Creek State Park using maps.google.com (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Deep+Creek+Lake+State+Park,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.291089,109.863281&ie=UTF8&cd=1&z=14&om=1) and then check them out using Bikely (http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Deep-Creek-to-Friendsville-60-miler). It's different and the maps.google.com is correct and Bikely is wrong. Why is this?
12. •  
      CommentAuthorKevin Pfeiffer
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007 edited

     
    Let's see, the last post from Bikely/Radar was on July 18th; if they are now only posting here once a month then you will only have to wait 4 days for an answer. ;-)
    
    -K
13. • CommentAuthormatiasek
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007

     
    I hope that you will consider adding dynamic routing to the bikely functionality. It would be a great help. As someone pointed out above... Mapmyrun.com seems to have added it to their repertoire. I hope that you guys do soon, so that I can get cue sheets for my routes, since mapmyrun.com does not have that function. Thanks for the great site otherwise.
14. • CommentAuthorbeoba
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2007 edited

     
    This would be a great feature, and would speed up my path creation by orders of magnitude. The current system of manually clicking every few hundred feet gets to be pretty repetitive when you're doing it for several miles. As a result, I've lately been reluctant to add new routes to bikely, just because I can go to Google Maps, give a start and end point, then drag the route until it fits what I want, in a tenth of the time. This doesn't work for off-road routes, but as I'm in the middle of the city this hasn't been a problem so far.
15. • CommentAuthorjohnstevenson
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007

     
    Implemented, needs testing, please have a read:
    
    http://www.bikely.com/forum/discussion/1722/from-the-management-bikely-development/
16. • CommentAuthordmacmurc
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2007

     
    I've tried this out at Bikely Mud and it seems to work really well for the initial layout of a route. The additional new features of private messages to route authors and author's general comments on routes seem good, too, so WELL DONE JOHN!
    
    I had become somewhat despondent about Bikely's future, given the intense absence of activity since last March, but this is definitely progress on several fronts. Now the trick is to keep the ball rolling, so let me add feedback:
    
    With the new follow-the-road feature, it would be a big improvement to be able (as Google Maps is able) to revise the route to follow the "next best" road. In Google Maps, this is done by selecting start and end points and letting follow-the-road find the route; then one can grab a point on the resulting route and relocate it to some alternate road (typically one that's not a major highway) and Google Maps obligingly redraws the route to follow roads through the newly positioned point.
    
    With the new test implementation at Bikely Mud, relocation of a mid-route point simply creates a cross-country excursion in the old route. I suppose that Google achieves its result by dividing the route into two parts at the selected relocation point and then reconstructs two follow-the-road segments that join at the newly relocated position.
    
    Doing this obviously requires code to divide a route into arbitrary segments, which is another feature that has often been requested, so while taking this further step in follow-the-road would no doubt involve a good deal more work, it would also represent another big step forward in the usefulness of the site, so keep up the good work!
17. • CommentAuthorScot_Gore
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2007

     
    DMAC,
    In my feedback to John regarding MudBikely I suggested that they change the preference to avoid highways, like you can do on Google. I thought it would lead to the program selecting more of the roads we want. It gets on the freeway around me at almost any opportunity in my testing. John thought that was a good suggestion and is looking into it.
    
    Scot
18. • CommentAuthordmacmurc
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2007

     
    Scot -
    
    I did see that post, and I agree, it's a good idea. I think the question is whether you would get only one "alternate" or "non-freeway" route, or whether you would be able to adjust a "pre-fab" route to suit your purposes. In my location, there are often choices of back roads that include or avoid larger hills, and you might choose one or the other depending on your ambition or riding company or other factors.
19. • CommentAuthorkyleyost
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2007

     
    I have written some code that will generate a GPX file from Google Maps that you can directly import into bikely and will include turns in the cue sheet.
    
    1. Create a bookmark/favorite with the destinationURL exactly this:
    javascript:(function(){var%20script=document.createElement('script');script.src='http://mysite.verizon.net/kyleyost/googlemap_cuesheet.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(script);})()
    
    2. Go to Google Maps and make yourself the exact route you want by dragging the blue line around.
    3. Select your bookmark/favorite created in 1.
    4. Choose Create GPX for Bikely
    5. Copy/Paste to notepad and Save as GPX file
    6. Import into bikely.
    
    Google makes creating routes super easy, and this makes getting them and cue sheets directly into bikely super easy as well.
    
    Enjoy. Feedback at kyleyost@gmail.com
20. • CommentAuthormadmike88
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2007

     
    Kyle....
    
    That script is AWESOME!!!! Thanks for your time an effort to put that together!
21. • CommentAuthorBlueMM
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2007

     
    Hi Kyle,
    Great utility. Were you aware of GMapToGPX?. It too is a bookmarklet, and produces GPX files from Google Map directions (Routes/Points/Tracks & Full breadcrumbs with turn directions). Your utility seems to produce the same as the Full option. I note that your bookmarklet changes some of the turn direction info (spacing & changing turns into either left/right/straight). This might be an issue for localised Google map directions (ie. different languages).
    I guess my workflow has been developed with GMapToGPX in mind (so I'll continue using it, I have scripts which modify turn directions using my notation format), wish this was standardised in Bikely (or some best practice recommendations). I've been using GMapToGPX for ages, it's been in development since 2005! But very impressed with your utility, works well.
22. • CommentAuthorkyleyost
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2007

     
    Yes, my code was inspired by GMapToGPX and I have been in touch with the author. I've been using GMapToGPX for import into bikely and got tired of having to edit the GPX created by GMaptoGPX so made this bookmarklet that is specific for bikely and creating Garmin CRS files.
    
    My code is different from GMapToGPX in that it uses <cmt> tags instead of <desc> tags so that the turns are imported into bikely as a cue sheet. And, it disregards intermediary "milestones" that are just there in order to get Google Maps to follow the exact route you want, so the cue sheet will only have valid turns and not excess information like "head southeast on Main St" when you dragged the blue line in Google Maps to Main St to get the route to that way instead of some highway.
23. • CommentAuthorBlueMM
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2007

     
    Kyle: Oh, that's cool. I guess I was worried about switching my "workflow" over to some quick hack, but it seems yours is almost exactly what my scripts do with GMapToGPX. I also manually go through and remove those useless "head southeast on Main St", so yours will save me time.
    Two Questions:
    1. Any chance you could add an option to (or change) the utility to leave the turn directions alone? I use the Google notation (slight left etc.), not really after the simplified directions & whitespace changes (I presume made so works well on your Garmin)
    2. If this is based on GMapToGPX, does that mean you just need to merge changes that Josh makes when Google modifies it's code (which happens regularly)?
24. • CommentAuthorkyleyost
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2007

     
    1. Yeah, the parsing of the directions to shorter notation was more intended for the printable cue sheet option where, if folks are like me, they want as short verbage as possible so they can tape the cue sheet to their stem. For bikely, maybe the more verbose direction are desired, although if the purpose is just to create a cue sheet from bikely, then...... Either way, it should be users choice.
    
    2. Yes, the parsing of the Google page which contains all the coordinates is mostly Josh's code, so when it needs fixing either Josh or I will get it done and communicate with each other so the fix is reflected in both.
    
    3. I'm working on creating Garmin CRS files for direct import into Garmin devices complete with coursepoints for turns. I'll incorporate any changes for (1) above when I upload this latest version.
    
    Enjoy!
25. • CommentAuthorjacknolan
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2008

     
    I was using a beta version on bikejournal.com and their map moves every time you plot a point. Nice feature, makes mapping faster. It doesn't draw a line (yet) but I found the map shifting in the direction of your point a very nice feature. But I love this site too!!

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